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| Hi. I'm Joe Darger, and you're not... |
Now here's an interesting tweet from Papa Joe Darger...
Led a panel at #sunstone symposium yesterday about impact of decriminalization of #polygamy. Surprised at the resistance to it.
— TheDargerFamily (@TheDargerFamily) August 2, 2014Hmmm...Gee Papa Joe, at least you could have given us more details what the Sunstone Symposium was about, and why you would be leading a panel. Oh, and if there will be a transcript available later.
Anyway, I let my fingers do the hashtag searching on twitter and I found some information about the Sunstone Symposium. To be brief, it's an annual meeting that discusses LDS issues. This year, it seems Mormon feminists are finding their voices and demonstrating for equal Mormon priesthood rights. Unfortunately, these "uppity" females are not tolerated well and run the risk of getting a swift excommunication boot in the posterior if they are too vocal about it. OUCH!
So I can see how polygamy, which is another way of men subjugating women, ( HEAR ME NATHANEAL "let's take our first bite of food at the same time" RICHARD????) just isn't as interesting as having hundreds of female Mormons following the Big Love storyline of Barb Henrickson seeking ordination as priesthood holder and literally storming the Temple's gate....so to speak.
Read more about that issue here:
Mormon feminists discuss tone and the patriarchy
A side note. An observation I found interesting from panelist Nancy Ross:
"Mormon women often use an infantilizing way of speaking in public — adopting a so-called Primary voice that is most often associated with children — even when addressing adults and mature topics. "
Sounds familiar, doesn't it, Christine Brown?
Here's more information on this year's Sunstone Symposium...
Mormon Reformers behind the ‘Zion Curtain’ Refuse To Be Silenced
On a more cheerful note, The Dargers (well, grandmama Alina) welcomed their 3rd grandchild...
And on the subject of the Dargers, ThePrinciple Blog had an interesting posting on yet another Kunz/Kelsch/Darger family wreath discussion:
Kunz/Kelsch question
It appears Brady and Wives are still in the midst of filming their second season, which hopefully will premiere sometime in September.
Post by Brady and Wives.
Seems they are trying hard to keep the focus off their bankruptcy. For example, they had a post asking their audience what they're doing with family this summer...
Post by Brady and Wives.
And of course, the obligatory picture of a plural wife (this time Rosemary) with a "mystery man"...most likely a member of the crew...
Post by Brady and Wives.
Last, we have The Browns. Who I think are trying to snub me by not tweeting a damn thing of worth this week. C'mon Janelle, tweeting song titles as answers to fan's questions? Well, at least she tried something different.
That's OK...I WILL find something to write about, trust me!
Do you know My Sister Wife's Closet now has it's own twitter account? Since July 11, it appears. But I'm failing to understand the Entrepreneurs' retweets. Shouldn't they be tweeting about My Sister Wife's Closet merchandise and what's on sale? Or maybe "Hey guys, the server's UP so click this link and buy buy BUY our junk!!"
Just file this one under "Still Clueless"
All lasting business is built on friendship. - Alfred A. Montapert
— Entrepreneurs (@EntrepreneursQ) July 31, 2014(Built on friendship until one party owes the other party a lot of money!)Hopefully, this twitter account will take over all those insipid VLL tweets that cluttered Meri's twitter timeline for most of the year.
Get a taste of the band VanLadyLove that played at our commitment celebration. Just $4.99 for the digital download! http://t.co/huZCAVgFRx
— MySisterwife'sCloset (@MySisWifesClos) July 28, 2014Just for the heck of it, I'm now following MSWC twitter, but ....
Up pops Mariah's twitter as a follow suggestion. Now I've made a personal choice NOT to follow the Brown Teens, but occasionally I will take a peek or two. And I've adored Maddie's tweets this summer.
While perusing Mariah's tweet patter, I found one that really perturbed me for some reason.
if I don't know you, you can't follow me on Instagram. sorry.
— mariah brown (@mariahlian) July 30, 2014It seems she's too high and mighty to allow the unknown peoples, AKA the dredges of ghetto society to follow her on instagram. Funny, that her other more popular siblings don't seem to have a problem with people following them.
Do you think maybe that's why they are popular?
I'm hoping some day Mariah will gain some intrapersonal skills, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Sheesh, it's not like you have to marry the people that follow you!
Really Off Topic...Remembering Ashlee Holmes from Real Housewives of New Jersey
Since we are talking about reality Diva Daughters from Hell, here's thanks to Amused who remembered the name of the original rDDfH, Ashlee Holmes.
This girl actually makes Mariah's slightly skewed outlook (she's just your average tv star, you know) seem normal. Nah, nothing can beat the outrageousness of Ashlee...NOTHING!
Here's a sample of what gossip rags think about her...
Ashlee Holmes Claims She Quit Real Housewives of New Jersey; Calls The Show A “Hot Mess”!
Still Off Topic... Ramona Singer of RHoNY calling it QUITS with hubby Mario!!
Okay, who didn't see this train wreck coming?
Ramona "Crazy Eyes" Singer has announced her split with husband Mario over Twitter, of all things. Wait, let me rephrase that, Ramona announced via twitter her breakup with hubby Mario. There, that sounds better...
I have decided to move on with my life without Mario. I tried my best to make my marriage work. I am excited for the new chapter in my life.
— Ramona Singer (@ramonasinger) August 7, 2014I don't know about you, but I suffered through Part 2 of the RHoNY reunion show where Ramona refused to answer dear, sweet Andy Cohen's question whether her friends were supportive when she was having problems with Mario and his roving eyes earlier in this year.
Now it makes sense why she kept telling Andy to BACKOFF!!
To get back on topic for my living room, I wonder if Ramona ever considered bringing on Mario's girlfriends as sisterwives?
Frankly, I have a feeling Ramona would rip that sisterwife to shreds...and Mario too!
And that's that for now!
My question is why would anyone want to follow Mariah anyway? I still love how to posted that rude "You're welcome" tweet to customers of MSWC because she had to stay up and do her job and was inconvenienced.
ReplyDeleteI bet she'd love to find a guy who wants a plyg relationship and start a courtship at college, but she's finding it harder than expected. That trainwreck would give the Browns another season.
I looked at Mariah's Pinterest board the other day and found it interesting that she had 1 pin on her "Dr. Brown" board, and dozens and dozens on her "Wedding Board."
DeleteI don't think she will ever be a doctor but I think she will definitely be married.
DeleteAnon 6:13, does she have potential sister wives pinned on her wedding board?
DeleteThere's no way this girl, who complained about having to stay late to fill packages for MSWC is going to cut it as a doctor. Doctors do looooong shifts, staying awake for 24 plus hours at a time, are on their feet all day, and need lots of energy. Nurses to long, back-breaking shifts/work too. She needs to look at working in another field.
DeleteWhen Mariah tweets "sorry" i hear meri's voice..Meri ends or starts sentences or statements with "sorry" alot
DeleteWhat she really means is..Sorry,not sorry.
DeleteHer 15 minutes is about up. Buh bye Mariah.
Here's an interesting link to fan pictures of Robyn taken a few days ago where she doesn't look very pregnant to me: http://theashleysrealityroundup.com/2014/08/02/exclusive-sister-wives- star-robyn-brown-hides-baby-bump-in-new-photos/
ReplyDeleteNah,Robyn isn't pregnant. At least she wasn't during filming and probably still isn't. The article linked points out that she is "hiding her belly" and " did during the RV episode." However, they filmed that RV episode quite a while ago. So, I think that if she pregnant then that she would be much further advanced in her pregnancy and not be able to hide it anymore with just her hand and/or folding her sweater in front of her. I don't think she is just newly pregnant now either.
DeleteIf she is in deed trying to hide something, which she may not be, it's either her non-pregnancy
or her muffin-top. Her muffin-top was particularly obvious this season. Maybe she is self conscious about that.
You know, I wouldn't put it past the family to have decided on no more children among themselves, but to pretend there may be more just for the show.
Nor would I put it past Robyn to be pulling a Nikki Grant from Big Love and be secretly taking birth control pills and not tell the family.
Also all the "pulling the jacket over the belly" thing might have been their way of making us all speculate. In other words, preparing for the end of the season cliffhanger. Robyn did the same thing when she walked into Meri's house to be told that Meri was going back to school.
DeleteReelin' us in
I don't think she's pregnant. The pic on the left was taken outside and the wind is blowing her hair back. It looks like she's just holding the sweater to keep it from blowing all over the place. The interior pic looks like that's just how the sweater hangs....and "modest is hottest"
Delete"So I can see how polygamy, which is another way of men subjugating women, ( HEAR ME NATHANEAL "let's take our first bite of food at the same time" RICHARD????) just isn't as interesting as having hundreds of female Mormons following the Big Love storyline of Barb Henrickson seeking ordination as priesthood holder and literally storming the Temple's gate....so to speak."
ReplyDeleteLove, Love, Love this !!! Great snark, CJ !!!
Big ol' Juicy Joe/ Papa Joe Darger is a throwback to the classic 60's style "male chauvinist."
He makes my skin crawl.
He is "surprised at the resistance" to the decriminalization of polygamy ???
What?....did he really think that cheesy Reality faux-Shows on Plyg life would warm the hearts of non-plygs and law makers ??
Papa Joe, get real.......and smell the coffee or green goo.
Kody Brown, and now Brady Williams, are not user-friendly TV Plyg poster guys to enhance your cause. And....neither would you be !!!I
I do try to stay away from critiquing the Brown kids, but Mariah is definitely a challenge to honor that choice. She certainly is an unfortunate blend of both of her parents, both physically and philosophically.
A spoiled, unpleasant diva in the making.
A spoiled, unpleasant diva in the making.
DeleteYou know, I gave this a lot of thought. She is right up there with former housewife Jacqueline Laurita's awful daughter that got sued by Danielle Staub for assault (she pulled out Danielle's extensions) and lost, and finally moved to Hollywood and promptly started a fire in her apartment. The one that Caroline Manzo's son dropped off at the airport and couldn't figure her way to the departure gate and missed her flight.
What WAS that girl's name?
Ashlee !!!
DeleteYep, she was/is the quintessential spoiled, nasty diva !!
Geez, after reading that link you posted....it is crazy funny for *her* to call the show "a hot mess!"
DeleteShe would be a deliciously hysterical additon as the fifth wife. Ha !!!
She would be a deliciously hysterical additon as the fifth wife. Ha !!!
DeleteYes!!! Kody wouldn't know what hit him!
Oh my. She's not as bad as Ashlee. At least not yet. That one was a real piece of work. I wonder what happened to her? I don't think I've seen anything about her recently.
DeleteMariah seems to have gotten more air time than the other older teens and I think it is due to her throwing a fit about, well, everything. So she seems to have this self perception that she is a celebrity and as such can act the part...sort of like her dad. Plus, because of her being the only child of Mariah, the chosen and first wife and only legal wife, it seems as if she has also elevated herself above her siblings. I don't see her getting a lot of date offers and that might be why she was not involved in the older Brown kids and their friends running around. Mariah has so many issues and I am certain most of those issues relate to her mother's sadness
ReplyDeleteI really don't see her getting a boyfriend anytime soon. I bet her standards are sky high, and well, the type of guy she wants won't be interested in her. She may have to settle for being wife 3 like her mom Christine did.
DeleteMariah's mother is Meri and she is an only child.
DeleteI know her mom is Meri, but don't they consider all the wives to be their moms and all the siblings to be their siblings, at least in theory?
DeleteAnon 3:42, No, Mariah has 3 moms and 16 brothers and sisters. As the keep telling us. Over and over and over. It's one big super happy family. ;)
DeleteChristine is her mom because that's how they want everybody to think that all the wives are moms to all the kids not just their own and she does have 13 other brothers and sisters too so she's not an only child!
DeleteI can understand keeping social media accounts private...seems like there is a nicer way for her to say that though especially since she doesn't keep all her accounts private.
ReplyDeleteShe really needs to learn some social graces.
DeleteI think it is ruder for random people she doesn't know to request the follow. I didn't think her response was that bad. She probably gets sick of the requests and I'd bet the tone of some of them was pretty rude, getting defensive because she wasn't responding/following. Given the number of times I've seen people post here about driving out to where they live and driving by the houses I'd have to guess some fans get a little intense and cross some boundaries they shouldn't with people that are really just strangers. Mariah gets on my last nerve but I'm not that bothered by this tweet.
DeleteDon't security people tell celebrities to ignore stalkers by not responding to their requests? All Mariah did with that tweet of hers was to announce she was selective in who she allows to follow her. She very well could have a public instagram account and a private instagram account for only her friends but I suppose that solution never entered her head. Can you imagine having her as a doctor? Sorry, I can't help you injured person because you need to be known to me as one of my patients.
DeleteMariah often posts public pictures to her twitter account which are linked to her instagram. These pictures are out there for all the world to see so it should be expected that her "fans" are going to want to follow her. She has every right to deny them access, however, even though the words in her tweet are not necessarily rude, I read them in her annoying and entitled brat voice so that is the way it came across. God help this girls future sister wives, I'm just sayin'.
DeleteHopefully, she joins a family as a second or third wife, and the first wife is just like her mother and lays the smackdown on that attitude.
DeleteA friend of ours is a celebrity. His wife has on her FB account: this FB account is for friends and family only. Please go to XXXX for our public FB account. Thank you for understanding. There are lots of ways to word it; of course Mariah couldn't figure out one of them.
DeleteOff topic, I watched Dumb and Dumber today. Harry (Jeff Daniels' character) has the same hair "style" Kody does. I just wish I knew how to do side by side comparisons.
ReplyDeleteHa, he totally does!
DeleteI just watched the tell all episode.
ReplyDeleteAm I crazy or did Kody say early in the series (or maybe in the book) that is not his choice as to how many wives he has?? That God decides that.
That's what I remember him saying so no matter what he says on TV, if he gets a revelation about bringing in another wife, he will. Anyway, he has to get at least 2 more wives to beat Brady Williams - oh and he needs at least 4 more kids, too.
DeleteBet his 'revelation' emanates from his nether region rather than from a higher realm.
DeleteBet he'll hear the divine calling for wife #5 if TLC wants to cancel them! They'll do anything to keep the show going for income because otherwise they'll end up broke & stuffed back into the Lehi house sharing a kitchen.
DeleteGod better decide pretty soon whether or not Kodude should add another wife. Time is running out for a new and improved story line. The Brown ship is going down like The Titanic without a life jacket to be found The show is at a dead end if they do not come up with something new. Only fun thing left to watch would be moving back to Lehi where they belong.
DeleteI think it is safe to say that Kodude is not going to take another wife. There is no way shape or form Robyn would allow it....period. God is not making that decision at all for the Kodster.
DeleteIf Sobbin would be the final yay or nay about another wife (or wives), she probably would agree only IF it meant her Junk Jools biz would have get enough funding to become a Fortune 500 Co.
DeleteLike that is ever gonna happen...Dream on, silly Sobbin !!
Kody,on the other hand, would sell his soul and all 17 kids to keep his mug (and his mouth) in front of a camera. I think if it does come down to the provebial push to shove at TLC,....no question, Kody would do Number Five !!!!!
However, TLC has to figure out if even that would keep enough of an audience to entice and satisfy the sponsors.
Just a thought,
DeleteI really don't think Robyns wishes matter that much to Kody. Remember that at one time Christine was the latest, greatest and you see where she ranks now.
Reading your reference to Kunz/Kelsch/Darger, do you remember that Meri's sister Teresa was married to a Kunz? Also I think Rebecca Kimball's maiden name is Kunz. Speaking of wreaths!
ReplyDelete"Mormon women often use an infantilizing way of speaking in public — adopting a so-called Primary voice that is most often associated with children — even when addressing adults and mature topics. "
ReplyDeleteOh yes...this, this, this. Christine Brown: plyg poster gal.
I don't know about "Mormon women" but I think this is a pattern with many people who spend a lot of time with small children. I cringe when I see women talking to their husband like a child. And I see that very, very often. Disrespectful much? Yikes. I always feel so bad for the men. I notice school teachers doing it, too. But I can understand how it happens, as when you spend most of the hours of your day in a certain environment and playing a certain role, things become a pattern that is hard to break. Different settings, but the same thing happens in other environments, too. I see a phenomenon with some of my friends who work in academia whereby many conversations start to feel like lectures, even though I know that's not what they intend. And some business people in management or executive roles can take on a role of CDO (Chief Delegation Officer) in other environments too, even if it's inappropriate and unintended.
DeleteSo I agree with the observation, but don't think I attribute it as having anything in particular to do with being a "Mormon" woman.
I think she looks pregnant in the pictures in the link above. Maybe a December baby. I can't imagine the kids are overjoyed about a new sibling. I estimate they only see their dad every few days. Now he will be absent more often. Just a sad situation for the kids. Think of the family dynamic of competition and jealousy. I've no sympathy for the wives at all. Idiots for doing this and putting children through it too. After watching this show from the beginning, I am definitely NOT convinced it is a healthy lifestyle for anyone!
ReplyDeleteI was pregnant last year at this time, with my second baby, due in December. I promise that you could TELL at this point. Being that she is a mother of four, I cannot imagine Robyn being that small five or six months into a fifth pregnancy. Either she's fueling the gossip fire, or she is only a few weeks along (first trimester).
DeleteI think she is just fat and has a muffin top. She is just like the other wives: using food to medicate her loneliness and jealousy of having an affair with a married man.
DeleteWhat are they going to next season when she isn't pregnant and they don't have that storyline to fall back on? The fans they do have are going to feel mislead when her big announcement is just something about My Sister Wife's Closet.
DeleteMaybe they will throw a party! Or take a family trip! Or go on vacation with a new bunch of plygs! The possibilities are finite.
DeleteRobyn has absolutely no muscle tone. A story line could be her and Janell working out together. They share a husband, but *gasp* could they share a trainer?????
DeleteOn that Entrepreneurs' retweet, just for a second I was afraid that the person beign quoted was 'Alfred E. Neuman', the goofy icon from MAD magazine.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why Joe Darger is suprised at the resistance to polygamy?? I think it is alot more surpising that anyone would want to be in a pologimist relationship!
ReplyDeleteThe pologomist guys must really hate the fact that the majority of women wouldn't touch that ridiculous notion with a 500 foot pole!
I think these plyg men are shocked when anyone disagrees with them. They are so used to having everything their way at all times that when someone has the nerve to disagree with them they are shocked. The Klown just screams persecution every time.
DeleteI read the book from the Dargers and I was not sympathetic. Yes if your parents are involved in breaking the law they could be arrested. All that keeping dimes in their socks and meeting places if they should see a squad car was nutty. You can visit people in prison. This notion that an arrest disperses the family for all time is just off.
ReplyDeleteAs I understand it, they are still breaking the law, but polygamy is no longer a felony ???? is that correct CJ?
Deletebut polygamy is no longer a felony ????
DeleteThe way I understand it, Utah's anti-cohabitation statue was ruled unconstitutional, but polygamy is still a felony (albeit one of the lower class felonies) in all 50 states.
oops statue should be statute!
DeleteWhen Christine said she grew up with the fear that her family would be torn to apart and never see each other again; I laughed out loud. If they put the polygamous male in jail, the wives and children would still be free and if the wives were in as good a relationship as they say they are, they could stay together.
ReplyDeleteFor the short creek raid they let the men out on probation and shuffled the wives and kids around the state for a few years. But that was in the early 50's. And they met up again. Now maybe some of the wives got out with their kids and didn't return to polygamy? So in a sense the family was split up. But even the most recent texas raid the children but a couple went right back. Not to their parents since families were split apart already across the compound network. But they were back in a few months. And only cause the age of some of the pregnancies were they taken.
DeleteAdditionally, several books from ex-FLDS members talk about how families would be separated and sort of redistributed to another male headship in certain circumstances. I don't know how the AUB handles that sort of thing, but perhaps having the women and children be separated from one another isn't as impossible as some suggest.
DeleteAnon 12:25- But Christine always implies that it's the government, cops, state that splits up the families, when in reality it's the church leadership that sends the families to other husbands. She needs to be more honest about who it is that reassigns the wives and children- it's the church she chose to stay with, not the wicked, scary US Govt.
DeleteYet.......the US government and its taxpayers are not too scary for plygs to flim-flam and bleed that wicked, evil beast.
DeleteIf anything, we taxpayers should find them scary and dangerous....dangerous to our wallets and checkbooks.
I second that, Amused. They just want to free-load off the rest of us.
DeleteAnon 616 Christine's fear was real because her grandfather Rulon was jailed in the Short Creek raid and he did separate his families into different homes in different cities and even states. They never again lived together as one family. I also think the state of Arizona toyed with the idea of imprisoning a woman for being a 1st wife and allowing her husband to bring additional wives into her home. Like I said, Christine's fear is real.
DeleteIf Christine's fear is that real, why did she ever agree to be on national TV for four years now, or in the other filmed activist endeavors she did before SW began.
DeleteAsking not because I doubt her fear, just wonder why she went along with it all if she was that terrified of government intrusion.
Is Kody that persuasive or that much of a dictator??
Seems odd if he is, since a big chunk of this season was all about much Kody "doesn't" get to decide and has no say in things.
Truth is there is very little about the Browns that makes any sense and/ or is consistent.
I think the issue isn't whether or not Christine's fear is "real," but rather how she wants us to interpret why she has fear. Like Anon 6:07 said, we are supposed to infer that it was the government that split up the families, not her grandfather. She has a weird way of interpreting things though. Getting rid of a toaster because toasters kill more people than sharks, for example, rather than just not being scared of shark attacks. I wonder if she knows that every year when ice cream sales go up, shark attacks do, too? She may stop buying ice cream while missing the overall point that the real culprit is summer ;)
DeleteChristine had been doing pro-polygamy public speaking gigs for years before the show. In fact, she was approached about doing a show before Kody was. The whole fear thing was really ramped up for the show.
DeleteMariah's tweets are so caustic, full of Harry Potter analogies, and full of references reminding everyone she's been to Europe. It's embarrassing to read!
ReplyDeleteHmmm......next season? What *will* they come up with...???
ReplyDeleteMaybe a contest of the TV Plygs. The Browns vs The WiIliams !!
For the two harem masters:.
A battle of the bullshitters....who spins the best "pick up" line when trolling for new conquests.
Who has *or is planning on having* the most kids and most wives?
Who has racked up the most lame excuses to shut up their wives?
Who has the most hair?
Who has a favorite bedmate...and who?
For the legal wives....
Who has a secret savings account?
Who has better "everything" unbeknownst to the other wives?
Who despises most of the other wives more?
For the mistresses.....
Who is getting "more" quality time, AM and PM from the master?
Who fantasizes about leaving....or about never having been there at all?
Who hasn't been on meds like Xanax or Prozac at least once?
Who is tired of pretending to happy for the master, and now pretending for the cameras?
Winner gets all expenses paid trip in an RV to spend a week with the Dargers.
Including daily workouts, training with Drill Instructor Papa Joe himself in his garage gym.
Hope the Browns win the contest, I want to see Janelle climb that wall with Big Joe directing !!
I'm watching Snapped and Kody the Klown better hope Christine never starts watching this show....
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to jump in and say it really bothers me when people take Mariah's current personality traits and say she won't make it as a doctor. She is still a teenager/young adult. She is allowed to complain about staying up late to do stuff, it does not mean she will never make it as a doctor! Sometimes I think people get so caught up in snarking on Mariah that they pick at every little thing she does.
ReplyDeleteShe will never possess the personality traits to be a doctor. Maybe a tyrant, but not a doctor.
DeleteI wonder if she is away from her helicopter mother whether she will blossom some day and not be so self involved. She needs to mature. Perhaps some volunteering in a third-world country or impoverished part of the US would open up her eyes to how privileged she and her fame craving family actually are...
DeleteI can say with confidence that she will never make it as a doctor since her attitude is already so bad she is so self-entitled.
DeleteMariah still seems like all talk and zero walk. Typical Brown family behavior. I wonder if she has any idea what it even takes to be a doctor except for the phrase "go to medical school."
DeleteI do worry about Mariah and think she is naive and spoiled. But she's also young and just starting to experience more of the world. People can change and I hope the best for her to have a happy life.
DeleteDo you realize that as of 2011, most college students who apply to medical school are not accepted? 56% are rejected. Think about that -over half of these ambitious, gifted, disciplined science majors will not get in. Mariah is a young (although spoiled) adult and she is fair game for discussion. How has she distinguished herself intellectually from her peers? Mariah wants to be a doctor because of the perceived status of the profession. She has not demonstrated above average intelligence and her despicable personality is self-evident. On a practical note, at her weight, she will simply be unable to stand on her feet for 16 hours a day. I think it's hilarious that she brags about her wish to be a doctor when the admirable work is in becoming a doctor.
DeleteAs someone who attended a faith based education system like Mariah, she will he woefully undereducated in the sciences to compete with higher performing medically minded students.
DeleteMy reasoning is the episode Kody states that kids from their church school often needed GED certs because their school was unaccredited, Mariah's refusal to watch the pediatric patient video provided by her guidance counselor, and my own struggle through non faith based college curriculum.
Sadly, the connection to the church school is probably as harmful as Meri's parenting style.
What pediatric patient video?
DeleteI am sure that Mariah at least caught up to her peers in the Las Vegas school system. Wasn't she elected to the National Honor Society? I would hope she would take science classes if she was interested in medicine. If she didn't take AP or IB biology and chemistry I would say she isn't really interested in what it takes to become a doctor.
DeleteSerena : I was a National Honor Society advisor and some schools have very tough standards, like my school, to join and some allow everyone in at a certain g.p.a. NHS is not really an indicator of intellectual fortitude. So, unless we know how her school admitted kids. . .
DeleteTo be fair, we really don't know the scope or specifics of Mariah's academic performance/abilities. And, there are lots of doctors who don't stand constantly as they work. Just saying....
DeleteThe fact that Mariah picked a school that is known for its liberal arts and not for producing medical doctors said a lot too.
DeleteI just wanted to comment on the "primary" voice mentioned above used by LDS women as their public voice which mimics a child's voice. People have discussed how Christine uses it. I've noticed a similar soft-toned, child-like voice is also used by the fundamentalist Christian women like the Duggars. I once had a neighbor who used this voice - it was totally put on. She'd bat her eyes and talk high-pitched like a little girl around my husband and other men in particular - it came off as very flirty. I interpreted it to be her coming on to him and I really detested the woman. Now, I realize it was likely that she was doing this to fit in with her religious group. She was a fundamentalist Christian involved in a group similar to the Duggars. I heard her use a normal lower voice range when at home sometimes talking on the phone with her mother - so it was very obvious the voice was something she could turn off and on. I guess they're trying to be more appealing to men and train their daughters to talk softly to attract men too? Seems really creepy to me. I've always thought all the submissive stuff and "purity" before marriage is so men who can't perform in the bedroom don't have to worry about their wives comparing them to someone who can. I wonder sometimes how much Robyn and Janelle need to reassure Kody that he's much better than their first husbands. I can only imagine King Kody would need lots of reassurance.
ReplyDeleteI've known women who do this who have zero religious affiliation. While it can certainly be caused by a social group, it can also be caused by many other things--like a male role model who repeatedly praised that baby voice when they were growing up.
DeleteI agree with Snarkaholic. I don't think it has to do with religion and it happens in a lot of different cultures and settings.
DeleteI agree that it goes way beyond certain religions. Have you watched the Kardashians within the past few years? Khloe used to talk to Lamar in that ANNOYING baby voice. She treated him like a child and catered to his every need. Poor thing.....but yeah, that "Primary voice" is used out in Hollywood too.
Delete"I've always thought all the submissive stuff and "purity" before marriage is so men who can't perform in the bedroom don't have to worry about their wives comparing them to someone who can."
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I've always thought the whole "sleep around and try out a lot of partners before you settle down" that our secular society sells to our children is so men can get lots of sexual pleasure whenever they want it and don't have to actually demonstrate responsibility and commitment and treat women with respect and dignity.
and I'm from the generation where "free love" and "sleeping around" were practiced by both men and women. Men and women are equally responsible for treating their partners with respect and dignity as well as demonstrating responsibility and commitment in my free love handbook.
DeleteWow! This comment sounds like one of the Browns is doing some lurking here!
DeleteA couple of comments here sound like Browns are on. No one wishes the family ill, everyone here wants to learn about the lifestyle and see how it works in our modern society. People get snarky (rightly so) when they are lied to, insulted and treated as a means to an end (watch our show so that we can buy stuff). So, sensitivity aside, this blog is an open forum for ideas and opinions (thank you CJ) so, there is no need to get feelings hurt.
DeleteIf the Browns are lurking. . .
How about a real look at what your lives are like?
If you don't like each other, just say so. We can see that there are issues, you are not fooling us.
How about if you stop insulting monogamists? We don't have less fun and we aren't stupid because we commit to one partner.
How about showing an honest conversation about family finances? Maybe one where just like us you sit at the kitchen table or PC with a calculator and a stack of bills and budget.
How about if you stop trying to make us think that polygamy is fun because you are always throwing parties and going to Disneyland. We know that isn't real and that when the show ends so will the party.
What If you showed us Kody having a conversation with the kids that is not a lecture? Show us how the balance of time works for the whole family. We can see that it is uneven for the wives, how do you balance time with the children? Does he only see them when he with that wife? If that is so, then when he is spending extra time with a wife, for whatever reason, does that mean that he does not spend time with the children of the other wives on those days? Are the children important at all?
If the Browns are reading this, you should know that you are losing viewers because you aren't honest with your portrayal. You asked us to watch as you shared your lifestyle so you can't be defensive when we turn away when you won't.
Also, women who sleep around get sexual pleasure as well. We have this thing called equality outside of polygamy.
Delete"so men can get lots of sexual pleasure"
DeleteOh no! I wasn't doing it right! I got lots of sexual pleasure, I didn't know it was only supposed to be for the man!
I'm not ashamed to admit I 'slept around' quite a bit. I guess the difference is that my value as a person or right to basic 'respect' is not tied to my hymen.
DeleteI have dates (and married) some of the most respectful and supportive men I've ever met, because my sole value was not my purity, but my experiences and ideas...not to mention my comfort in myself.
I guess it's a fairer trade in that world, when purity overshadows any accomplishment, you stick with the man who offers it back to you (magically or otherwise).
I didn't know "secular society" was selling "sleep around and try out a lot of partners before you settle down." For that matter, what is "secular society?" Look, my problem with hymen worship--whether it be religious, secular, or otherwise, has nothing to do with promoting sleeping around. People who vow to remain abstinent until marriage typically don't--they wait about one year longer than average to lose their virginity and are much more likely to have sex without protection (either because they have been given misinformation or no information about safe sex or because they are afraid of the stigma attached to obtaining and using birth control). For those who do wait until they are married, that typically just results in very young marriages which are statistically less likely to last. If you look at the most "secular" states (i.e., with the most progressive attitudes towards education, like Massachusetts) you typically see lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower incarceration rates, lower poverty rates, etc. This has nothing to do with religiosity or spirituality but rather with EDUCATION. In fact, the "Bible Belt" states typically have much higher rates of divorce, drug use, child abuse, teen pregnancy, incarceration. My state (Oklahoma) is probably the least "secular" state in the country, and we have some of the worse rates for everything I just mentioned including the distinction of incarcerating more women than anywhere else IN THE WORLD. And most of those women are mothers, btw.
DeleteSo my point is this, religiosity, in and of itself, does not prevent sexuality any more than the "secular" world promotes it. Robyn's bizarre purity weepy-speech showed us this. And I think that it is demeaning to women to suggest that they should hold out sexually in order to receive respect. This weird, Victorian-era attitude towards a woman's sexuality does not protect women at all. In this paradigm, a woman's value to a partner is tantamount to their "purity." Not to mention that women have been the innocent victims of sexually transmitted diseases given to them by their philandering husbands since the beginning of time, as a women is expected to be only with her husband, but if a man strays, it's probably the fault of some hussy woman.
I think striving for purity and then the celebration and enjoyment of sex as part of building and maintaining a strong marriage is the best option for both men and women and it shouldn't be belittled or mocked as a choice.
DeleteI don't think stating facts is belittling or mocking regardless of how unsavory those facts may be.
Delete"I think striving for purity and then the celebration and enjoyment of sex as part of building and maintaining a strong marriage is the best option for both men and women and it shouldn't be belittled or mocked as a choice" Looking at this through the lens of polygamy is interesting it? How is a married man who is "courting" a new wife striving for purity? The problem with this is that it is sexist, it is genderist. The woman is expected to be a virgin. Doesn't matter if the man is. And this is an ancient, ancient construct. In Biblical times, if a man and woman were caught committing adultery the man paid a fine (the the woman's husband or father) and the woman was PUT TO DEATH. It is the double standard of "purity" that has plagues women forever and ever and ever. Perhaps woman should not be shamed for choosing to try and break free a standard that places her worth as a woman and as a partner on whether she has an intact hymen and rather on who she is as a person.
DeleteI was abstinent until marriage. I promised myself I wouldn't have sex until I was out of high school, and then after high school I had a long list of goals I wanted to achieve. I chose to remain abstinent because I didn't want an unplanned pregnancy or STD to derail me from what I wanted in life.
DeleteWhen I was looking at potential suitors, I held them to a similar moral standard as myself. I didn't flaunt my virginity but I didn't let anyone get fresh either. My husband was also a virgin until our wedding day for his own set of reasons.
I never once felt "better" than anyone else because of it. I also didn't maintain my "purity" (I really hate that term for virginity but whatever) because my future husband might value it. I valued my v card enough to find someone who honestly deserved it.
I see nothing wrong with it and feel no shame for it.
"I see nothing wrong with it and feel no shame for it."
DeleteNor should you. Every person should be able to make their own decisions without people judging them. It always amazes me when people mock those who have chosen to remain celibate until marriage. It's your choice, do what is right for you.
Anon 4:59
DeleteYou and I both have similar stories. I didn't have sex before marriage though because I never wanted someone to have the option of using me for sex-whether I enjoyed it or not. I hated the thought of someone not caring about who I was as a person but only coming to me for a peice of ass. My husband waited till we were married because of his spiritual convictions.
I guess I never tried to put like a value on my virginity because it did not define me as a person but I didn't want to ever give someone else the satisfaction of having me just to have me. Even if I had enjoyed it too, the thought of being used made me sick to my stomach so I decided to wait.
I don't know what I'm trying to say really. I guess just that there is some value in your virginity. But there is also a lot of value in a man's too. Just my opinion, not a fact.
Not from that generation but am a child of the generation who started the "free love" movement. As a now grown-up woman I am grateful for some of the changes but as a woman am also very sad and even angry about other changes. I rarely listen to the radio because I don't want to hear women objectified and disrespected and referred to as bitches and whores and being discussed as little more than sex objects. Dress it up however you want, but many music videos these days are basically just soft-core porn. I often can't watch a movie or the TV for 5 minutes without being confronted with young girls or grown women being degraded and objectified and even more troubling choosing to degrade and objectify themselves. And I don't even have to watch the TV shows because many of the commercials are bad enough. I routinely hear girls talking amongst themselves and casually referring to each other as bitch and whore and slut and they act like it's funny or cool or empowering. It's none of those things. And even if they think it's funny and don't mind being treated that way, it impacts how men view and treat the rest of us and I expect to be treated better than that. Rather than liberating women, the "free love" movement left huge numbers of us living as single mothers taking on all the responsibility ourselves and our children. Men played us. The love can be "free" for them because we have to pay most of the cost. Now they can get the "cookie" (as Sobbin would say) from almost anyone, at almost any age, anywhere, any time and they don't have to earn it or appreciate it or respect the girl and treat her as special nor do they have to treat the act itself as special or something that should be respected. Sure some people adopt a free love mindset and take on shared responsibility but as a society the overall trends are not great. The "free love" generation made some gains, but they pushed many things much too far and we all, men and women, lost a lot in the process too. We would all benefit from moving the standards back much closer to the center.
ReplyDeleteThis comment reminds me of the documentary "Miss Representation." It is SUCH a great movie - really eye opening. It talks all about the objectification of women. One of the messages that has stayed with me the longest is what they called "false empowerment." Like, there'll be a woman in some action movie, and sure she'll be fighting and shooting people as much as the guy in the movie, but look at the way they dress her as she's doing it. She's still just a sex object.
DeleteI just saw a picture of the new Wonder Woman, and I just kept thinking about that "false empowerment" concept. Sure, she's a superhero, but she's barely wearing any clothes - and that is for the male viewing audience's pleasure. In Hollywood, a woman can be a superhero only as long as the male audience gets something out of it.
None of those things are any different than they ever were. Treating women like paper dolls is no different that treating us like used tissues. Men have always been able to pick up their pants and walk away, and they always will. That is why women tend to be more selective--because if there is an accident, we are the ones left with a child. It has nothing to do with "free love". As a matter of fact, bringing womens' issues out of the closet has helped immeasurably and brought a great deal of equality and freedom for women. If you don't want to be a single mother, don't have a baby--these days, you don't have to. But don't ask for a return to back street abortions and public shaming of women that happen to get pregnant because society deems it a travesty. All of that chastity and demure behaviour masked the fact that women were valued for little more than their procreative ability. And pretending that there was no sex, no prostitutes, no date rapes or dirty secrets behind closed doors does not mean that they didn't all exist.
DeleteTreating women like paper dolls is no different that treating us like used tissues? No that's actually very different. Used tissue is immediately discarded in the trash or flushed down the toilet.
DeleteExactly. May I add though, that many (if not most) single mothers do not expect to become single mothers. Many single mothers are young women who married their "true loves," who never expected their marriages to fail, their husbands to leave, or that they would have to raise children on their own. And these women are just as publicly shamed as unmarried single moms.
DeletePaper is paper. Doesn't matter how to try to dress it up. Women are not two dimensional and we are much more than the value men place on our chastity.
DeleteMainstream-that movie sounds interesting, will have to check it out. Is it on Netflix? You're right that objectifying and sex-ifying women is pretty much constant in Hollywood. It also happens in other ways all the time in real life and once you're aware of it it's just so obvious.
DeleteAnonymous7:45pm-I might be wrong but am assuming you are also Anon6:42, if not I'm sorry. You seem to have a lot of passion around your points, but I think you've misread the original post. The post didn't say anything about women only being valued for chastity or that things should regress 100 years. It said that women should be valued and respected and that objectifying women and making it ALL about sex demeans and devalues women.
Delete" Men played us. The love can be "free" for them because we have to pay most of the cost. Now they can get the "cookie" (as Sobbin would say) from almost anyone, at almost any age, anywhere, any time and they don't have to earn it or appreciate it or respect the girl and treat her as special nor do they have to treat the act itself as special or something that should be respected."
DeleteWhat I am saying is, men NEVER had to do any of those things. They NEVER needed to respect a girl, or make her feel special, or treat the act as special. It's a pipe dream. Whomever posted the original post is living in a fantasy world created by television in the 1950's. Just because textbooks do not highlight the fact that men of that time--of ANY time--have treated women like whores, or degraded them, or abandoned them to try to get jobs or raise children alone, doesn't mean that it hasn't happened for the past thousand years. While I am not a fan of the objectifying of women by any means, I don't see how you can blame the 60's or 70's or the "free love movement" or whatever, for something that has always existed in different forms. Hell, women were stitching scarlet letters to themselves in the 1600's, were they not? We have always been treated like the Madonna / Whore, and I am glad that we have reached a point where we can call a spade a spade and stop pretending these problems do not exist. At least we can talk about them now, instead of becoming an alienated Stepford Wife addicted to Valium and treated as nothing more than a maid / arm candy / baby machine. What's the difference, really? Objectifying is objectifying.
Contact solution
DeleteMainstream- I have never heard the term false empowerment but something similar always came to my mind when watching tv/ movies or seeing half naked celebs on the cover of magazines talking about how empowered they feel or how they're a strong woman. While it's their decision what they do/ wear, it always bothered me. They were, again, putting the emphasis on their bodies and on their sexuality. While they're over there being strong and empowered women some yutz is getting off on their magazine cover. Women are still being objectified in the media/ pop culture and it is getting worse.
Damnitt,
DeleteI always have to write my comments on my notes on my iPhone because for some reason it will not let me go back and correct my spelling/ punctuation in the comment box So I copy paste my post into the comment box and sometimes I accidentally get part of my grocery list in there too..... So ignore the contact solution. •_•
I had high hopes for the Christian polygamist family. I really wanted them to show a different side of polygamy because I think the polygamy that is born from fundamentalist Mormon concepts is so creepy and oppressive to women. That Christian polygamist man was maybe even creepier. He just decided one day he wanted enough wife's to satisfy his every need? Ew.
ReplyDeleteTLC has successfully proven that male driven polygamy is just awful. All of these men are gross and the women all seem depressed. The williams, richards, dargers, and browns alike.
I'm beginning to think maybe that's the whole TLC plan. Show how sad and miserable the plural wives appear to be while claiming how happy and fulfilled they are. There will always be clueless followers but for the most part I think most people are seeing how ugly polygamy is. It makes sense why the anti polygamy shows were cancelled. It was just overkill - with zero production values and extremely scripted.
DeleteThe Christian plyg husband was worse than Kody IMO. Why would he make his wife feel inadequate like that when she was doing something nice for him in making him cookies. He basically said on tv that she wasn't enough. It is hard for me to comprehend why she would have remained in a relationship with him. This man was basically disgusting.
DeleteHow about a show about 1 woman with multiple husbands? Or would that be "too much" for mainstream America?
ReplyDeleteI once watched a documentary about a polyamorous relationship that was one woman and two men. I didn't really believe that they were all that happy either. It was a different concept entirely than these religious polygamists, but I got the feeling from the men in the documentary that they weren't happy.
DeleteOh dear, wouldn't that be vulgar?! ;o)
DeleteWhy not?? Fair is fair.........I'm sure the majority of women in polygamist relationships would just be horrified at the idea of a woman being married to several men....
DeleteIt's only permitted if it's the man getting to exploit a group of women!
I think Snarkaholic's comment was in reference to what Kody told Meri eons ago when she asked him how he would feel sharing her with another man. Of course it looks like he has no problem sharing her with VLL
DeleteHonestly, without the religious angle, I think a show about polyandry would be really boring. I already think THIS show is boring, but at least I was intrigued by the religious indoctrination that these women received. A handful of guys sharing a women just sounds dull. Although I can see how it would come in handy...sort of like having four or five butlers, lol.
Delete+1 Anon and the rest on one woman with multiple husbands.
ReplyDeleteMy main problem with Mormon polygamy is exactly all this - it's polygyny only (and it's not like plyg fundamentalist Christians have a monopoly on the polygyny model). People have been commenting on it since "Paint Your Wagon", and I've always found that interesting.
Western polyamory seems more like an arrangement among individuals, especially without additional social components like religion or social prestige, but my knowledge of the poly culture/community is vague. I've heard more nightmares come out polyamory than happy endings, but if works for you, do it.
Polyandry is pretty rare at a cultural level. It tends (but not always) to manifest in the form of fraternal polyandry - two brothers sharing a wife. Insofar as I can tell, it tends occur in harsh environments (hardcore weather + terrain), where male mortality is high. It also takes care of inheritance issues and soothes a bit of paternity anxiety.
The thing that mystifies me about fundie plyg subculture is that as the US crept west back in the pioneer/Wild West/Gold Rush days, conditions for polyandry would've been ripe. But the plygs held on. I imagine that's where Joe Smith and "God told me so." comes in.
I'm going to stop and stuff the anthro monster back in its box, but something tells me Kodilocks wouldn't have had a testimony about a polyandry situation. The show is dead, the storylines have run their course, and nothing short of a fifth wife or marrying Mariah off to another plyg family that's been on the show will recapture an audience's attention. Karma's gearing up.
Polyandry is also typically only practiced in situations where it is necessary to keep the birthrate low or have a negative population effect. I think that polygyny was an excellent way to increase the Mormon population quickly and that was part of its inherent appeal.
DeleteI'd buy that. The relative scarcity of women in the west might have contributed anti-early Mormom sentiment.
DeleteThat reason is pretty much why polygyny is the most common model. Breed enough kids, and at least some of them will buy it.:|
The entire show with all of its alleged alliances between Kody and Sobbin, or with Janelle or whichever other bed-buddy is the focus du jour have all been crafted *for the camera.* The viewers only see the edited footage which the producers choose to air. The producers even choose what will be filmed in the first place. And there is just nowhere to go now. No one cares anymore who is Kody's fav squeeze.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the folks who feel that at this point, with each wife cocooned on her own McMansion island/planet on the cuddle-sec, they may not even or ever see each other except when TLC shows up with the itinerary, script and cameras. Sure, the kids may interact given the houses' proximity, but very doubtful the wives do at all. There is no eye contact between them, no friendly, easy commiserating.......always chilly, very chilly. You can't edit "in" that chill. It's there.
Which makes all these contrived trips all the more laughable and stupid.
These women do not hang out, do not act like friends or even warm acquaintances or neighbrs, let alone would they choose to spend a week crammed in an RV or in a hotel or at a campsite together.
But hey, Brown Babes.....to get all that TLC $$$$, you really had to do *something* to earn it.
I bet TLC made that fact very clear, huh?!
And no doubt the Brady Babes will be finding that out too, if not already.
Very true, it is always chilly between them and you can't fake that and you can't cover it up. It reminds me of those icky years when Prince Charles and Princess Diana were still doing public tours together and it was painfully obvious they couldn't stand each other.
DeletePerfect example !!!
DeleteThe British press couldn't airbrush their expressions or body language in the pics....
It was so obvious !!
And neither can TLC put light in their eyes or warmth in their demeanor.
I have been divorced for several years, and my children are grown. Since my ex-husband wasn't a very good companion or father, I once thought it would be delightful to have sister-wives to share the burden, and to be my best friends. Since I wasn't that fond of my husband, I didn't foresee any jealousy in that arrangement. Of course, that was before I began to see how sister-wife relationships have been portrayed. Now I'm just happy to be on my own, making all my own decisions, and having nobody I have to try to be "perfect" for.
DeleteIs anyone reading Mykelti's tweets? Is it me or does she sound depressed?
ReplyDeleteShe does sound depressed, poor girl. And she's moving?
DeleteOther thoughts on Twitter, it looks like maybe Aspyn has a boyfriend?
She's probably moving for college. I don't think she's depressed. She's a teen and we all have some break-ups to go through in those years. They seem so tragic at the time!
DeleteSo is the "Williams Bankruptcy" really happening????? I am just SO DISTURBED every time I come on here and have to scroll down to the bottom and have to run over the pictures of the Brady family....playing games on their cell phones, Rosemary taking a picture with her cell phone in her hand....I've never filed for bankruptcy, but don't you have to start cutting out things to get back on your feet? I know.....they have a TV show...but if this bankruptcy thing really happens, but they continue on with their lifestyle......IM NOT WATCHING! (hear that TLC/F8F...or whoever funds ya)
ReplyDeleteI kept my cell phone when I filed for bankruptcy. They really aren't worth anything to creditors but are pretty necessary for life. I needed mine for my job, to be in touch with my kids daycare, to call 911 in an energency, pay bills, etc. It's not like smart phones are status symbols anymore. My daughter got hers for free and has a $30 a month pre paid plan. Switching to landlines or a flip phone wouldn't have helped me with my medical debt and I doubt it would help the William's with their gazillion dollars of credit.card debt.
DeleteAgreed, Anon @ 8:28pm. I held off for years getting a cell phone, but when I did I grabbed the cheapest one I could. I can honestly say that people look at you funny if you state you don't have a cell phone nowadays, at least they did to me. The best feature about it is that you can call 911 almost anywhere, which, being a female, adds some semblance of security. More than a few folks in my area have deleted their landlines and just use cells. As for job hunting, they are almost a necessity.
DeleteI haven't had a landline for 10 years. And I never even missed it once since shutting it off. And now I've been without cable TV for a year when I switched to online and streaming. A couple things were challenges, but mostly I also have not missed anything with that change.
DeleteGoing way off-topic here, hope that's ok... is anyone watching "Married at First Sight"?
ReplyDeleteIf my comment is not appropriate, pls delete CJ. Thanks!
Hey Jellybeans!
DeleteIf I can talk about Real Housewives, Married at First Sight is okay!
I think my BFF watches, is it the show about arranged marriages?
CJ, it is a show on getting married at first sight- spouses are chosen by "experts". It follows them as they figure out their marriage. (or divorce) It has been renewed for a second season! I am enjoying it. :-)
ReplyDeleteThanks for that MSWC has a Twitter account because the name has a funny typo: "wifes." Wanna bet Robyn came up with that? ;-)
ReplyDelete